This is an interview, posted with permission, that I conducted for a drinks magazine in an issue focusing on the North Fork of Long Island with James Beard award-winning chef and writer Claudia Fleming last year.
She wrote The Last Course: The Desserts of Gramercy Tavern a cult cookbook that has just enjoyed a reprint. Every baker I know raves about the importance of Claudia's work,
Claudia is incredibly kind, thoughtful, and generous with her compliments. It was a pleasure despite the zhuzhhing of my intro into newsie-speak (thanks Chris).
Look for more to come from this platform.
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From somms to snail farmers, the North Fork has become one of the country's shining culinary destinations, and in Southold chef ClaudiaFleming is creating a true dining experience. Fleming is a James Beard award-winning chef noted for her outsized role as pastry chef at Gramercy Tavern and now of the North Fork Table & Inn which she opened in 2006 with her late husband chef Gerry Hayden.
The North Fork Table & Inn is marked by meticulous organization and graceful sensitivity to fine detail. The menu and techniques change with the seasons, but Fleming’s philosophy doesn’t. For her, restaurants are where people come to be nourished, and sitting at her table is a sustaining event.
In Paris, the dancer-turned-chef studied pastry under luminary chef Pierre Hermé, and in New York, her outsized role as pastry chef at Gramercy Tavern earned a James Beard award in 2000. Her cookbook, “The LastCourse,” is widely held to be one of the greatest dessert cookbooks ever published and will return to shelves this November.
Now with 15 years, under her belt in the North Fork, Fleming is still pushing the boundaries at her restaurant, a destination for city-wearyManhattanites and local Long Islanders alike. Barchive sat down with her to talk drink, food and how she continues to nurture creativity decades into a storied career.
WF: What do you drink?
CF: I open rosé for myself at home, nightly. I try to make it last two, but sometimes it doesn’t last that long!
WF: Any rosés in particular?
CF: I drink McCall religiously.
WF: Religiously? What is it about the McCall you love?
CF: It’sbigger than most rosés. It’s super luscious with nice fruit. It’s like a party. For other types of pairing, especially at the restaurant, I rely quite heavily on [beverage director] Mike [Mraz]’s opinion on what goes with what.
WF: At the beginning of your career you worked in Paris [at patisserie Fauchon under the legendary Pierre Hermé]. Did your time there shape the way you drink, maybe you developed a penchant for Champagne orCalvados?
CF: I wouldn’t say that my time in France influenced the way I drink, mostly because I was so poor that buying a piece of cheese was a big treat!
WF: Are there any transcendent drink experiences that stand out for you, the perfect place at the perfect time type moment?
CF: Absolutely. It was at Gerard Boyer’s LesCrayeres [in Reims, France] across the street from Veuve Clicquot when I got engaged. We drank a bottle of vintage Veuve Clicquot Rosé, and it will stand out forever in my mind. That’s it for me: it has the most sentimentality, in the most extraordinary place and it was very special.
WF: I love opening up birth-years wines and special vintages. It’s one of life’s little pleasures.
CF: I’d say it’s one of life’s great pleasures.
WF: Another of life’s great pleasures is fresh produce. I’ve read that you have a very close relationship with the farmers who grow your produce and that some are even growing things especially for you.
CF: Yes, I mean, that’s one of the things that drove us out here. There’s nothing greater for a cook than to have that relationship with a farmer, with your food. It’s pretty special. Right now, it's August and it’s tomato time. I can’t get enough of them. Usually, they’re not even worth eating in June or October. It’s very specific. It used to be special to travel to someplace and only be able to find that particular thing there. But, I do think people are trying to go back to a more specialized, seasonal cycle with food.
WF: Seasonality is really what’s at the heart of so much soulful cooking.
CF: Yeah, I agree.
WF: Do you have a specific approach to the way you compose dishes?
CF: I strive for balance and balance doesn't just mean vinegar and salt and sugar and citrus. It comes from having a developed palate, a lot of tasting, and a lot of experience. You can’t be afraid to fiddle around with things, and you can’t be afraid to make mistakes.
I like to play around with temperature, texture, and the balance of flavors. I tend to not have too many ingredients. If I have a peach there's going to be fresh peach, peach sorbet, caramelized peaches, and crushed peaches.
I’ve been making corn ice cream for a long time and people used to think that was so weird, but it is a sweet product that made sense to me as a dessert. A lot of herbs are sweet. Basil, in particular, is sweet and spicy which is such a fabulous partnership.
WF: Earlier this year you said: “We’d gotten very experimental […] but one of my goals in the kitchen this year is to be more approachable but still sophisticated.” What’s motivating this change of style?
CF: It's based on the guest's feedback. We're out in the country. People want comfort. They want soulful, and they want to feel embraced and not threatened. When they have to ask: “What am I eating, what is it?” It makes people uncomfortable, and they don’t like it.
WF: You run more than just a restaurant. How has being out of the city and in the North Fork shaped the way you view hospitality in general?
CF: Being out here, I think the expectation for people is that [the North Fork Inn & Table is] a little more intimate, kind of like going into someone’s living room and being taken care of. Life is hard and we want to make people feel welcome. I’m very aware that it's special for people to go out to dinner. Everyone deserves us at our best, and I like to think that we offer that. We like to take care of people.
I’ve said often that this business is for big-hearted, nurturing people, and there’s nothing more nurturing than feeding someone. A restaurant is an extension of that view of hospitality. The people that are in it, that’s the natural way of being for them. We’ve made our living taking care of people because it’s what makes us happy.
WF: What are the places where you feel nourished around here?
CF: When you work in fine dining you really tend to want the basics. Ha! Brix and Rye is a fabulous cocktail bar. They do an amazing job at being incredibly warm and welcoming. Attached to that space is 1943 and I’ll put that pizza up against anybody. It is definitely my go-to. I also love First and South, it’s a Cheers typebar: big, friendly, and gregarious with a great burger.
WF: Most of my friends who cook and maybe even more so those who work in wine are happy with cheap beer and a shot of Jägermeister at the end of the night.
CF: Haha, oh my, those days are over for me.
WF: How have you continued to stay fresh creatively?
CF: Generally, the more you have to do the less creative you get. My most creative days, hands down, were at GrammercyTavern. I will forever be grateful for the freedom and support that I got to be creative there, because when you are running a restaurant…it’s really hard. If I weren’t in an environment where all this beautiful produce and product was coming at me, I would be much more stale than I am right now.
WF: Do you have any other advice for young cooks?
It’s really important to for young people to travel if given the opportunity because it takes us out of our blindness. It’s too easy to be consumed with work. You need to find time to let your brain wander. I've very visual so I still read magazines. It’s something about the tactile nature. I feel like I’m making more of discovery when I’m reading print, but it's important to look outside your craft. Go to the opera, the museum, the theater or the ballet. Get inspired by things outside of what you do. There may not be a direct link, but it’s motivating and inspiring to see creativity in any form.
WF: Do you have an anecdote about something that you used to think was important but turned out not to matter too much?
CF: Being good at anything takes time. Right out of school young cooks generally don’t know how to navigate a kitchen. Being comfortable in a restaurant or bakery takes a very long time.
I think for most trades going to school doesn’t seem all that important because it’s all about practice and repetitions. One does not come out of school being “proficient.” You need years before you are considered experienced. Cooking is about practicing.
WF: It’s the same with your background in dance, right?
CF: Right, you are going to do the same thing over and over again, constant repetition until you know it backward and forwards.
WF: Despite all this practice you’ve said that you didn't set out to become an industry icon, but that “All I[‘ve] ever dreamt of was the next dessert.” What’s the next dessert?
CF: I don’t know yet! But I will tell you that they are getting simpler and simpler and who knows, maybe the next dessert is savory food. I’m starting to want to cook more and make desserts less.
WF: Is the North Fork food truck your outlet for that?
CF: I find great pleasure in the food truck, but honestly, I’ve [also] been thinking a bit about the old-fashioned dessert cart as an interactive experience. I come up with these ideas that are stupidly labor-intensive, but I can’t help it! Serving stuff up from a cart sounds fun. Ha! Maybe I’ll actually have to consider this more now that I've said it out loud.
